I have been following the communications here in Sun City for fourteen years and what I hear has been much the same; excuses for the wrong doings and wait till next year for the solutions, we are hard working volunteer's doing the best we can, everything is wonderful.
I have a forty-five year business background and realize the importance of having a Business Plan. When I was made aware of the losses and that SCSCAI did not have a basic Business Plan and treated golf and food & beverage business as an HOA amenity that mingled funds with the general budget I became very concerned. In the beginning I was misled by the BoD and management that there was a Business Plan, only to find out none existed. Many members including myself have questioned, why not? and received no answers.
Sue, for the last ten years I have shared this same message with many on the BoD and every Executive Director however, SCSCAI is no closer of having the accountability of a Business Plan than ten years ago. I have posted many of my communications, including my last one to Ms. Cogar, on My Sun City Blog. Also I would like to [comment] on the highlighted items in your post to Bernie Silver.
Sue, I appreciate your efforts to communicate with the members, the more the better.
Dwain Kramzar
2624 High Range
702.808.4992
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Dwain A. Kramzar
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 8:06 AM, SUE PAPILION <spapilion@cox.net> wrote:
BernieOk, I will have to say that some of the things that past board members have been rumored to do or even proved to have done are beyond the pale! I don't even know people, I hope, that are as egotistical as some must have been. But will I or anyone else learn from their mistakes? No. [YES, I have learned from my many mistakes & my few successes] Do countries learn from going to war? No they just keep going.
How does a private investigator get some one under oath? [investigators just gather FACTS] It is not a court room, there is no case. [are fills missing ???] Suspects lie to police, FBi and investigators all the time. [and they go to jail] We couldn't even file a police report because there is a 12 month window in which the dastardly deed occurred. [what about holding the employee or member accountable?] Believe me if $5000 would have found the thief, I would have gladly approved that amount.
As far as the restaurants, I was at the Village Pub yesterday [Audrey & I were there also] and had to wait 40 minutes for a table at 6pm. There were so many people at the bar ordering food that I had to wait 10 minutes to order a drink. What makes that place so popular? [it is the positive experience of the customer that brings them back] Food is mediocre at best, the carpeting is filthy and the machines are tighter than Boyds!If people will go there, they will come to Vista Grill. [WHY?] At least lets try something to improve the losses.I too wish to preserve the Golf Courses and I guarantee it will be looked into this year if [SCSCAI has yet to provide a professional approach, this can't be preformed by a committee] I have to bring it up every meeting!
Sue.
On Jan 12, 2012, at 6:35 PM, Bernard Silver wrote:
Sue.In general you are stating that we should forget the past problems and move ahead solving current ones.Here is the issue. The past has been prologue for incoming Board Directors.The attitude that they may do what they want because the old ones don't pay attention and indeed take their leads on who to vote for from McCanna and Bjonerud who really act as strong advisers in their personally owned publications that goes to thousands.There is a huge difference in the writing of a threat that this duo made. It was in my opinion,clearly equivalent to a "Pay up or else" blackmail.If I had made that type of written threat you can bet that the Board would have found a way topunish me.Why didn't they do it to them? Because many on the Board had been championedby the duo in prior elections.Understand the old quote "Freedom of Speech does not give a person the right to yell FIRE! in a crowdedtheater, unless of course, there is one.Regarding the "Missing Files". Don't you think it would have been smart to hire an outside investigatorfor a mere $5,000 to come on board and ask some questions to some individuals, 'under oath' regarding what they knew or heard? I do believe that no person who was innocent would have refused to answer simple questions.What's $5,000 compared to losses of over $2,500,000 ?Many of us have suggested that we take some action to preserve our golf courses.This has included having an outside Management Company and considering the rotation of one courseto be idle for a while. NO RESPONSE!!As far as the restaurants are concerned, I personally do not believe they will ever break even because just cannot compete with other establishments in the near distance area. Snack bars for golfers that serve real simple food such as 2 eggs and bacon should be the limit and that could be provided by the Golf Management Company. One short order cook and self serve.I do not believe that you know or recognize how our Boards in the past and the Standing CommitteesGolf Oversight and the Finance have had members who did not perform as Fiduciaries and betrayedthe community with Conflicts of Interest.Bernie Silver
From: SUE PAPILION <spapilion@cox.net>
To: Bernard Silver <silverinvegas@yahoo.com>
Cc: "bod@suncitylv.com" <bod@suncitylv.com>; SHEILA MCCANNA <sheilamc@cox.net>; SCBuzz <SCBuzz@yahoogroups.com>; SC-SCOOP <sc-scoop@yahoogroups.com>; DAVID STEINMAN <dwsteinman@cox.net>; STAN BJONERUD <sbj4@cox.net>; SY & HERMAINE HINDEN <syherm@aol.com>; FRED SCHAEFER <S708783@cox.net>; DON GELBMAN <drgtrustpl@cox.net>; PAUL CALLAGHAN <callapa@aol.com>; BARBARA COGAR <barbarac@suncitylv.com>; BOB PASSMONICK <BobEmInc@aol.com>; DWAIN KRAMZAR <dKramzar@embarqmail.com>; EILEEN McKYTON <vegasbaba22@yahoo.com>; ELLIOT <golfman89134@aol.com>; JAN EDWARDS <suncityjanedwards@gmail.com>; Joan Kreisler <jdklk@juno.com>; John Crosswhite <jxwhite@cox.net>; JOHN THOMPSON <lasvegasjohn@cox.net>; JONATHAN FRIEDRICH <emmcor1@aol.com>; "JOSEPH O'CONNELL" <jpocon@cox.net>; LEN KRANE <lenkrane1@gmail.com>; STAN ROSEN <thermoipp@earthlink.net>; TOM BRENNAN <frivvie@cox.net>; WALKER SHARRON <hla@cox.net>; "wkrane1912@aol.com" <wkrane1912@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: HOW ABOUT THE TRUTH BJONERUD?
Bernie,
You are right in the fact that many things have been done by previous Board that are questionable p0-9and today may look like mistakes. It is up to current and future boards to correct or change them. It is obvious that continuing to talk about golf rangers is a waste of time because the situation was corrected. Losses in golf and restaurants does need to be addressed and I have and will continue to push for a plan with options, but realize every golf course in Vegas and across the country are facing the same problems that we have. Do we fund it and keep it beautiful and playable, do we close 1 or all or do we sell it and/or contract management. This is above my pay scale and above most who are on the board. We need expert analysis and then leave the options to town hall informational meetings and a vote by all in our community.
Key employee contracts is not up to our CPA auditor to comment on. It is up to the board to decide what to do. A previous Board decided to payout Ron Winkel from payroll funds. That can not be changed or fixed. Let's move on.
As far as the duo that you claim blackmailed a previous Board. Is a letter different than what is said on chat lines? Every resident has a right to their opinions. It is free speech. No board can change that. Opinions, name calling and open challenges come with the territory of being a Board member. What would you like to happen to Stan and Sheila? It's over and time to move on.
The missing files are missing and no one knows when the theft happened. Every employee (still employed in March) swore they know nothing, heard nothing and saw nothing as does every Board member swear to the same. Short of water boarding, I don't know what can be done. HR was moved into the main building and is now alarmed. The executive director office is now alarmed and current Board members can only see files with someone else present. It is like locking the barn door after the cow got out...but it is something! It is over, let's move on.
As far as the restaurants and golf director are concerned: The new Board will take action when the Executive Director makes a recommendation or takes control of her budgeting process. As of this moment, there is not a restaurant manager working here and the golf director still runs the restaurants.
I know you love Sun City and want to see things done correctly. I believe that is my intent and I see that intent in every current board member and everyone who is running for the board. You have to allow for differences in opinions, as there are on every subject. I like that you push and ask questions. Let's just push on current and new issues, not ones that are old, done and over! We can't change the past so let's work on the future.
Sue Papilion
On Jan 12, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Bernard Silver wrote:
Sun City Summerlin Board Secretary, Sue Papilion.
Sue.While what you state below is for the most part a rational analysis, be reminded that basically in the beginning, that is when many of us moved into this CIC, the Boards had to copy from the very nebulous management system that was O.K for the developer, but not O.K. for the majority of unit owners. Whereas Del Webb saved and made money, by having their own sales staff their greatest selling instrument. They also did well in selling to buyers that here we had low cost golf and annual membership fees. They capitalized on increasing the size of long term drainage channels into huge perimeter golf courses that were even then, clearly excessive for an age-restricted community.This provided the seller the opportunity to sell building lots attached to the perimeters at a very large premium. Nowhere in the deed was there any assurance of what later became an issue relating to a "VIEW".Suffice it to say that after Del Webb left, the relatively forever diminishing in quantity small group of golfers, 'managed' to control on the books, the expenses of the operations while doing little to increase revenue.Thus we have had reported "Operational Losses" from the operations of the Golf plus the Food & Beverages that have continued to grow, but are not really representative of actual costs.Yes, I am being repetitive, but the facts are that succeeding Boards have failed, regardless of prompting by lay unit owners to address the problems which create the losses.Regardless of whether it is called a Financial Plan or a Business Plan, I claim that the majority of prior and certainly the current Board have failed as 'Fiduciaries'.Even when appropriately asked questions have been asked, the trend has been to avoid reasonable and accurate responses. We the CIC unit owners have been exposed to unwarrented liability risksfrom at least three known situations.At one time at an open meeting, even our outside auditor would not provide a direct response to whether our accounts included a contingency fund for any separation contracts with employees.I understand that this auditor at one time agreed with our recently resigned Comptroller that the Rangers should be employees as was decided by the Board in 1998. So, why didn't the Boardmake the correction for 12 years?Why did the Board ignore taking the appropriate action against the McCanna\Bjonerud duo when they, in writing, threatened the Board regarding a pending action to dismiss the Exec Dir? This appeared to me to be a huge play to keep a key employee, the Exec Director from being replaced. Just what did this rebellious duo have in mind in such a forceful play?Why did the Board vote to not investigate the problem of the 'missing documents' after the HR Director resigned and the key to the files was given to the Business Manager?Why did the Board give the Golf Director, an additional task, Food & Beverages, along with a new title, Business Manager and a substantial raise, and then tolerate the continuing losses? Now that the function of managing the restaurants is being taken by hiring a new manager, will there be a compensating adjustment in remuneration?Sue, all in all the message that I give is this:All Directors must perform as 'Fiduciaries' and operate in the open unless they meet for legitimate purposes under Executive Session standards.All Directors do not have to be in agreement on any specific issue before them; they should encourage the expressions of perhaps a minority differing view.All Directors should be working together to stay away from interfering with the key employees by establishing at the Board level, clear written directions to the Exec Director.Bottom line, I do agree that the time is ripe for some new Directors, and I believe it would be appropriate for a couple of the old ones who created, or tolerated, some of our currentproblems, to be replaced.We must have some changes.Bernie Silver=================================================================
From: Sun City Sue P <scsuep@cox.net>
To: Bernard Silver <silverinvegas@yahoo.com>
Cc: "bod@suncitylv.com" <bod@suncitylv.com>; SHEILA MCCANNA <sheilamc@cox.net>; SCBuzz <SCBuzz@yahoogroups.com>; SC-SCOOP <sc-scoop@yahoogroups.com>; DAVID STEINMAN <dwsteinman@cox.net>; STAN BJONERUD <sbj4@cox.net>; SY & HERMAINE HINDEN <syherm@aol.com>; FRED SCHAEFER <S708783@cox.net>; DON GELBMAN <drgtrustpl@cox.net>; PAUL CALLAGHAN <callapa@aol.com>; BARBARA COGAR <barbarac@suncitylv.com>; BOB PASSMONICK <BobEmInc@aol.com>; DWAIN KRAMZAR <dKramzar@embarqmail.com>; EILEEN McKYTON <vegasbaba22@yahoo.com>; ELLIOT <golfman89134@aol.com>; JAN EDWARDS <suncityjanedwards@gmail.com>; Joan Kreisler <jdklk@juno.com>; John Crosswhite <jxwhite@cox.net>; JOHN THOMPSON <lasvegasjohn@cox.net>; JONATHAN FRIEDRICH <emmcor1@aol.com>; "JOSEPH O'CONNELL" <jpocon@cox.net>; LEN KRANE <lenkrane1@gmail.com>; STAN ROSEN <thermoipp@earthlink.net>; TOM BRENNAN <frivvie@cox.net>; WALKER SHARRON <hla@cox.net>; "wkrane1912@aol.com" <wkrane1912@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: HOW ABOUT THE TRUTH BJONERUD?
I find all these emails and chats on the history of past disputes very interesting and I am sorry for all of you who had to live through these troubles that caused so much bad blood and anxiety between residents. But lets remember, that we all have one thing in common...we are retired and came here to enjoy the remaining years of our lives. So much anger and pompous chest beating is a waste of time, when we should all be happy to wake up every morning to another day of sunshine and enjoy the activities and our friends here in Sun City. I thank all of you who worked so hard in the past to help Sun City, but I think it is time to move on to the present. Last night's Resident Forum's presentation of the candidates is that future and gives us all a good choice of candidates to move SCSCAI toward the goals that are important to you. I thought it was a good turn out of interested residents and I was happy that it was very civil. Let's move on and be happy that we have live to see another day.
Sue Papilion=====================================================================
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